Published: Monday, 15 February 2021 | Written by SciFi Vision
On Thursday, it was announced that on July 15th Magnolia Network, a joint venture between Chip and Joanna Gaines and Discovery, Inc., will be launching on Discovery+ and the MAGNOLIA app with its full slate of original programming and will replace the Magnolia Network preview that is currently inside Discovery+. Both apps will offer unlimited access to its complete collection of programming and will be at no additional cost to Discovery+ subscribers. Magnolia will also include immersive content such as workshops, recipes, shoppable features, and more. The official launch of its linear TV home with the rebrand of DIY Network will be in January 2022.
Chip and Joanna Gaines, as well as president of Magnolia Network, Allison Page, participated in a Discovery+ TCA panel to talk about what’s to come for their immersive brand and original programming.
Joanna talked to SciFi Vision about the interactive part of Magnolia Network. “I think for us, we've been spending so much time on building this library of content. I think one thing that we really felt like [has] always been important for us at Magnolia, is giving people the tools, the next steps to be able to say, ‘Hey, I'm inspired by that, but now I want to go do it.’
“So, the workshops are going to be that tangible tool where we're going to have people who really know their trade, whether that's design, cooking, painting, whatever it is, so that if you're wanting to kind of deep dive into some of these topics or subjects and learn more about it, you can almost be taught by the experts.
“Then, from there, there’ll be tools to then say, ‘Now you go get started yourself.’ So, our hope with the workshops is that it feels a little bit more hands-on, that it goes from this aspirational thing to now this kind of learning experience and really helps you take that next step.”
Sourcing second-hand items is something that the Gaines are known for doing on the shows. The process has changed a bit with the pandemic, but it’s still important to them. According to Joanna, “…That's just a big part of I would say just kind of the way I love to design in general. So, with the pandemic, vendors have gotten so creative. There are so many vendors that just literally text me their lot and say, ‘Hey, I've got this and this, and this,’ and that's how I incorporate a lot of the antiques you'll see on this new series with Fixer Upper: Welcome Home.
“But I would say, with a lot of our talent, the one thing we've really encouraged, is obviously, we have to be smart about how we do this from a production standpoint and be safe. So, the way everyone’s doing it is following the protocols. Some of these outdoor markets are reopening.
“So, they're able to go and find [things] in that way, but I think, however, they're shaking it up in their own way.
“I know, for me, it’s really important for our brand even trying to figure out how to implement that more in the store. I think it’s that perfect blend of old and new that really helps tell that story. So, I'd be curious to know just kind of the story that the talent is telling and how they're getting creative and how they're finding these pieces as well.”
Chip talked about what was the most difficult part of the journey has been for him. “…When we used to do Fixer Upper, what a layperson may not realize, is that, essentially, a season worth of information to the consumer, in fact, translated to a year, a literal twelve-month calendar year to Jo and I’s life…When you’re in television, reality television specifically, you’re trading a year of your life for, essentially, thirteen to eighteen episodes.
“I mean, for me, it just got a little bit daunting realizing that, man, that year cost me those few months of television. Then you would release that information, let’s call it Season 1, and Season 1 would happen, and you would start one week, and then it was followed by the next week, and then so forth and so on until the thirteen to eighteen units were consumed, and you’d get on the other side of that and go, ‘All right. Let’s do that again.’ It felt sort of rewarding in that sense.
“With streaming, you can consume thirteen to eighteen episodes in [one] night…That, for me, has been probably the toughest part of this challenge. It feels like an unquenchable amount of content that you have to provide that machine, and we’re trying to figure out what’s the right balance as it relates to that.”
Joanna talked about how their plans with the network have changed due to the pandemic. “I think our ultimate, first priority, was, ‘Hey, we’re going to launch and, boom, here we are.’…When they launched the streaming, we thought this would be a great, since we were about six months to a year behind what we thought we were going to do from a launch standpoint…But, I think, because of the pandemic and everything, everything has just slowed down. The library that we’re trying to build, all of that has changed.
“So, for us, what we got excited about with Discovery+, with this initial rollout, was just showing everyone a preview of what we’ve been working on for the last year or two years. But what we’re really excited about on July 15th is getting to show people our full library, the full series of a lot of these shows that we’re kind of previewing.
“So, I think what we’ve learned just in this industry, is things change daily, and I think that’s where we get excited. We love this challenge. We don’t really have certain expectations other than our number one goal is to create inspiring content telling beautiful stories, and we can’t wait for the world to see the full slate of shows that we have to offer.”
For more, be sure to check out the Magnolia Network preview on Discovery+ and on the Discovery+ and MAGNOLIA app. You can also read the edited transcript of the panel below.
ALLISON PAGE: Good afternoon, and good morning to those of you on the West Coast. My name is Allison Page, and I am thrilled to announce that Magnolia Network will be launching on July 15th of this year on both Discovery+ and on MAGNOLIA, a fully immersive digital brand product designed for Discovery+ subscribers and Magnolia superfans alike. Additionally, Magnolia Network will officially launch its linear TV home with a rebrand of the DIY Network in January 2022.
This is an exciting time for Magnolia and Discovery alike. There's so much to look forward to, but before we open the floor to questions, I want to walk everyone through what they can expect from us as we prepare to formally introduce Magnolia Network to the world. Starting July 15th our full slate of original programming will replace the existing Magnolia Network preview inside Discovery+. Both Discovery+ and the MAGNOLIA app will offer unlimited access to the complete Fixer Upper library and Magnolia Network's robust slate of original programming which consists of more than 150 hours of premium unscripted content from an ever-growing roster of creators, spanning home, food, gardening, design, entrepreneurialism, and the arts, including the complete first season of Fixer Upper: Welcome Home and Magnolia Table with Joanna Gaines, plus highly anticipated new series, Growing Floret, The Lost Kitchen, Homegrown, Family Dinner with Andrew Zimmern, Restoration Road with Clint Harp, and more.
The MAGNOLIA app will also be available on July 15th to Discovery+ subscribers at no additional cost and will feature an inclusive collection of workshop content featuring some of the country's most talented makers and artisans, designed to empower the audience to move beyond inspiration and into action by teaching them the skills necessary to try something new. In addition to recipes, behind-the-scenes footage, mid-form content, design inspiration and resources, and easy-to-use shoppable features, this will be a fully immersive brand experience. Our goal from day one was to share Magnolia stories with the largest possible audience on every platform. This continued partnership with Discovery+ followed by a linear launch early next year will allow us to do just that. We couldn't be more excited to share these incredible stories with you all.
…And with that, I'd like to formally introduce Magnolia co-founders and network chief creative officers, Chip and Joanna Gaines, who will be joining me to answer your questions about all things Magnolia, including today's announcement, the premiere season of Magnolia Table with Joanna Gaines and, of course, Fixer Upper: Welcome Home.
QUESTION: Chip and Joanna, two quick questions. When you're putting together projects like this, how much do you keep in mind that some people watching it will be great at something, at cooking, at renovation, and others are not going to know a damn thing about any of that? And, secondly, and this is superficial and I apologize; I've always been curious. On those fixer uppers when you would pull back those giant pictures, is the price of making those pictures built into the renovation cost?
CHIP GAINES: Oh, my gosh. You're not going to believe it. That is the number one, well maybe number two, question that has been asked over the years that we've been involved in Fixer Upper. Number one was, you know, “What happens to the furniture? Does the client get to keep it or not?” Then, literally, you know, very closely behind that thought is this idea [of], “What is that billboard, and how much does it cost, and who pays for that?”
I mean, years ago - it’s approaching a decade now, which is mind-boggling for us to process how quickly all of this has evolved, but nearly a decade ago, we were on a curb here in Waco, Texas with a production company from Colorado. They, literally, were saying, “How are we going to get the client from point A to point B without them, basically, being able to see the house?” So, we sat there and debated blindfolding these poor people. We thought about dropping them out of a helicopter like black ops might do and retract, and we thought the liability would be too extreme there. There was even an interesting thought about - and one of the guys that we became good friends with through this process had this crane idea where the cranes would hold up these two pieces of fabric that would essentially be either a green screen or actually have the imprint of what the house looked like to begin with and then drop the fabric at the count of three and this thing sort of falls apart.
But as we do it here in Waco, Texas, we got our cowboy ingenuity together and built a simple frame with some really simple little wheels on [it] that we literally bought all of these things at a hardware store, and we pulled that billboard apart. So, what happened for just a few hundred dollars is in fact not included in the renovation budget.
So, I hope that answered your question, but it was a fun process to try to figure out exactly how we were going to get this client to, essentially, be surprised by the reveal of this. It’s interesting that it stuck, because we didn't think that was going to be a long-term solution, but people really kind of fell in love with that idea of us on either side of that billboard and us pulling that thing apart. So, it was really hilarious that you asked that. You're not alone in your curiosity with that.
JOANNA GAINES: And I think if I heard your first question right - now I'm like thinking about the billboard - about just like the cooking or even the renovations, I think one of the things Chip has always kind of taught me is just to be a lifelong learner. So, you know, I know with us, even with the network, we've got some people that are doing water coloring. So, even though I have no idea what it is, when I watch it, all of a sudden now I want to step into that world; I’m curious. So, hopefully, when people watch these shows across the network, whether it ever starts them on their journey of renovation or cooking in the kitchen, our hope is that people learn, that they're inspired, that they're entertained. So, it’s kind of one of those things where we try to put it all in a pot, and hopefully when people are done watching, they feel like, “Hey, I can tackle that myself.”
SCIFI VISION: Hi, guys. Thanks for talking to us today. I really enjoy all your shows. So, we're hearing how the network is the first sort of immersive digital network of its kind, and you're going to have workshops and things like that. Can you kind of talk to that side of it and what we can expect?
JOANNA GAINES: I think for us, we've been spending so much time on building this library of content. I think one thing that we really felt like [has] always been important for us at Magnolia, is giving people the tools, the next steps to be able to say, “Hey, I'm inspired by that, but now I want to go do it.”
So, the workshops are going to be that tangible tool where we're going to have people who really know their trade, whether that's design, cooking, painting, whatever it is, so that if you're wanting to kind of deep dive into some of these topics or subjects and learn more about it, you can almost be taught by the experts.
Then, from there, there’ll be tools to then say, “Now you go get started yourself.” So, our hope with the workshops is that it feels a little bit more hands-on, that it goes from this aspirational thing to now this kind of learning experience and really helps you take that next step.
QUESTION: Question for Joanna. What was the intent that you were going to do with your communications degree and what made you put that aside in favor of redoing houses?
JOANNA GAINES: Oh, I love this question.
CHIP GAINES: Me.
JOANNA GAINES: I blame Chip, but, you know, it’s so funny. In high school I worked for my dad, and he asked me to do his commercials for his business. So, every quarter I would end up doing these Firestone commercials, and I ended up loving…
CHIP GAINES: Do we have a second to sing the theme song?
JOANNA GAINES: No. No.
CHIP GAINES: [sings]
JOANNA GAINES: I didn't sing that.
CHIP GAINES: Oh.
JOANNA GAINES: But I did love the idea of having the script, and then, just having to deliver that. So, when I went to college, I wanted to do broadcast journalism. I always thought I'd work on a news magazine. I loved 20/20, 48 Hours.
CHIP GAINES: Yeah.
JOANNA GAINES: So, that was really something. I knew someone could give me a teleprompter and a really good story. That's like my dream job.
So, when I went to New York…
CHIP GAINES: Quickly, let me just interject -
JOANNA GAINES: Yes.
CHIP GAINES: - this thought. You know, people are talking a lot lately, obviously, maybe for the past few decades, thankfully, but very intentionally over the past six to twelve months, just about this idea that if you see someone do something, you believe in your heart you can possibly do it yourself at some point.
JOANNA GAINES: Yeah.
CHIP GAINES: And tell them a little bit about who inspired you in that sense and how when you saw her, you were like, “I want to be that in [story].”
JOANNA GAINES: I was always inspired by Connie Chung. I thought, just as an Asian woman seeing her, she was so professional, so well-poised.
CHIP GAINES: Yeah.
JOANNA GAINES: She was kind of someone I really looked up to. I also loved Dan Rather. So, I got to have this amazing internship at 48 Hours. It was like my dream, but while I was there, something shifted. I missed home so much that I found myself going into these little boutiques just trying to figure out, “How do I find that sense of home here in this big city?”
So, when I came back to Waco after that internship, I wanted to create that same feeling of home within a store.
So, it just shifted pretty quick, but it wasn't until I got married to Chip that he pushed me to do that dream. And, yeah, I never looked back.
QUESTION: I, actually, have two questions. One is, I know that before, sourcing and going and getting materials that are second-hand either through different shops and things like that was a big part of your brand. And I know that a lot of these shows that you're putting together during this time actually, you know, require your host to go out and actually interact with people. So, how has lockdown and the pandemic kind of changed how you're producing these shows and how you're adding to that part of the brand, where you do go out to flea markets and things like that? And the second part is very quick. Joanna, are you, actually, going to do the hot dogs and rice that you were talking about doing in your show?
JOANNA GAINES: I'll answer that second, I already did. I filmed it a couple of weeks ago, but that was kind of like a very small side of the bigger menu. It was just kind of a nod back to my mom, and I was having a lot of fun with that. And what's funny is on set, [is] the crew loved the hot dogs and rice, and everyone was very surprised by it.
To answer your question about the flea market finds, that's just a big part of I would say just kind of the way I love to design in general. So, with the pandemic, vendors have gotten so creative. There are so many vendors that just literally text me their lot and say, “Hey, I've got this and this, and this,” and that's how I incorporate a lot of the antiques you'll see on this new series with Fixer Upper: Welcome Home.
But I would say, with a lot of our talent, the one thing we've really encouraged, is obviously we have to be smart about how we do this from a production standpoint and be safe. So, the way everyone’s doing it is following the protocols. Some of these outdoor markets are reopening.
So, they're able to go and find [things] in that way, but I think, however, they're shaking it up in their own way.
I know, for me, it’s really important for our brand even trying to figure out how to implement that more in the store. I think it’s that perfect blend of old and new that really helps tell that story. So, I'd be curious to know just kind of the story that the talent is telling and how they're getting creative and how they're finding these pieces as well.
QUESTION: Allison, it’s probably mainly for you, but Jo, I'd also love to hear your thoughts on this. It’s a business question that I have. As far as I understand, the MAGNOLIA app was originally going to have a paid option as a standalone service. Now it’s going to be a free add-on for Discovery+ subscribers. I know that there's going to be monetization through a retail shop in the app, but how does this change impact the Magnolia business itself?
ALLISON PAGE: A direct-to-consumer offering was something we envisioned from the beginning. We just thought we were going to start with linear and then move to the app. It was not determined that it would be paid. We kind of stayed open to all options as we went along, so that wasn’t a shift as much as an evolution. I think you've got an ad-supported layer within Discovery+, and then with our linear rebrand next year, that's obviously a piece of it as well. Then, we're talking about, you know, options within the app. The evolution to free was an evolution and not really a shift in that front.
QUESTION: I have two questions. Why do people not trust their own instincts when they're decorating, designing, whatever? Why do they always feel that they can’t do it? And what has been the scariest move you guys have made in the course of all of these things that you've been doing?
JOANNA GAINES: Wow. Fun questions. I would say with just the first move, I think when you look outside of your home, you see -- whether that's certain apps or magazines - everything these days is just so polished and perfect. So, it’s easy to be intimidated at taking that first step. Like, I want my room to look like this, but how do I even start? And if it falls short, then I'm a failure. I think there's just a lot of things that we're comparing ourselves to just culturally speaking.
So, I would say I think a lot of it is just also not honing that gut. I think, for me, it took me years to really start trusting my gut when it came to design. A lot of that required practice and failing, and practice and failing. I think, now, I feel like I know my gut instinct, and we wrestle with it every day, whether it’s the magazine or its design on these homes. I’m constantly wrestling with that feeling, but I do think it’s something you have to kind of just put into practice, take that first step and say, “I’m going to go for it, and I’ll probably make some mistakes, but I’m only going to get better as I keep moving forward.”
So, hopefully, my biggest hope, whether it’s them watching Fixer Upper: Welcome Home or any of these other series, even if it’s just in the kitchen, that people feel the freedom to take that first step, that they’re not scared to do it, that they feel like it’s not aspirational anymore. It’s actually practical, and I can do this in my own life, and that’s what we hope people take away from this network, is that I can do this too.
Then what was the other question?
CHIP GAINES: He was basically saying what’s been the most difficult part of this, and I would just say - and Allison kind of hinted at this earlier - it wasn’t this pivot. It wasn’t this dramatic shift from one perspective to another, but we did assume at the beginning of this process that we were going to lead with a linear product, and then we were going to follow that linear product with a direct-to-consumer option.
JOANNA GAINES: We did, yeah.
CHIP GAINES: For that to have the cart and the horse, it’s definitely been reversed. In that evolution of that reality, I would say for Jo and I, it’s just a nerve-wracking place to exist.
…When we used to do Fixer Upper, what a layperson may not realize, is that, essentially, a season worth of information to the consumer, in fact, translated to a year, a literal twelve-month calendar year to Jo and I’s life. And when you’re doing reality television as opposed to scripted or some other alternative, what we’ve had to learn how to do, is we’re trading, just like with anyone. I mean, you trade a forty-hour work week for a paycheck, and everybody sort of understands that relationship. When you’re in television, reality television specifically, you’re trading a year of your life for, essentially, thirteen to eighteen episodes.
I mean, for me, it just got a little bit daunting realizing that, man, that year cost me those few months of television. Then you would release that information, let’s call it Season 1, and Season 1 would happen, and you would start one week, and then it was followed by the next week, and then so forth and so on until the thirteen to eighteen units were consumed, and you’d get on the other side of that and go, “All right. Let’s do that again.” It felt sort of rewarding in that sense.
JOANNA GAINES: Mm-hmm.
CHIP GAINES: With streaming, you can consume thirteen to eighteen episodes in a night, in one -
JOANNA GAINES: In a weekend, hopefully.
CHIP GAINES: - in a minute. I mean, you know, when people talk about -what’s the phrase that they use when they describe it?
JOANNA GAINES: Binge watching.
ALLISON PAGE: Binge.
CHIP GAINES: Yeah. Thank you, AP. Thank you, Jo. You’ve binge watched this information and, I mean, it was a little bit frustrating for me after thirteen weeks to know that I traded my year for that thirteen weeks of content, that information.
JOANNA GAINES: And now it’s just a day.
CHIP GAINES: Now when somebody calls me and says, “Hey, I binge watched your entire season last night from, you know, 8:00 p.m. to 2:00 in the morning,” you’re sitting there going, “My entire year got that person one night of information.”
So, sorry, I hope that answered your question, but that, for me, has been probably the toughest part of this challenge. It feels like an unquenchable amount of content that you have to provide that machine, and we’re trying to figure out what’s the right balance as it relates to that.
JOANNA GAINES: Yeah.
QUESTION: Chip, it’s interesting that you addressed that. It kind of addresses my question in a certain way, but for you and Joanna, when you first announced Magnolia Network, you couldn’t have foreseen…how it was going to go. Would your druthers have been to have all your initial content ready in one shot to launch the network with everything you had to offer in the beginning, at least the initial seasons of it, rather than kind of have it roll out sequentially the way it has?
JOANNA GAINES: Yeah. I think our ultimate, first priority, was, “Hey, we’re going to launch and, boom, here we are.” I think what we got excited about with Discovery +, [is] you know, they’re our partners. So, we are where Discovery + or where Discovery is.
So, when they launched the streaming, we thought this would be a great, since we were about six months to a year behind what we thought we were going to do from a launch standpoint - the fact that they rolled out in January. We thought, this is a great way to kind of preview, because we haven’t really been telling the world when we’re coming out. But, I think, because of the pandemic and everything, everything has just slowed down. The library that we’re trying to build, all of that has changed.
So, for us, what we got excited about with Discovery+, with this initial rollout, was just showing everyone a preview of what we’ve been working on for the last year or two years. But what we’re really excited about on July 15th is getting to show people our full library, the full series of a lot of these shows that we’re kind of previewing.
So, I think what we’ve learned just in this industry, is things change daily, and I think that’s where we get excited. We love this challenge. We don’t really have certain expectations other than our number one goal is to create inspiring content telling beautiful stories, and we can’t wait for the world to see the full slate of shows that we have to offer.
QUESTION: I have two questions, and I feel like I should preface the first one with, “I adore you guys; love everything you do,” but something that Chip said in one of the new episodes was about therapy, and I thought, “That’s kind of healthy, you know, online therapy.” I think it might have just been a joke, but I thought, “Wow, that’s very healthy for everything you guys have going on to be able to talk like that.” So, I don’t want to know what goes on in those sessions, but I just wondered if that’s a part of your handling all this craziness, and then I have a follow-up.
JOANNA GAINES: Our therapy is working together every day, I think.
CHIP GAINES: Oh, my God. Jo is in virtual 24‑hour a day therapy for obvious reasons. She’s got -
JOANNA GAINES: No, I’m not.
CHIP GAINES: - five beautiful children, and then she refers to me as like “Triplet.” So she was married to a triplet, and then had five kids after that. But I will say that we believe in mental health and taking care of yourself in that sense, and we’ve actually become really good friends with a guy named Kevin Love, who sort of launched this initiative in the NBA to sort of foster this open conversation. I’ll say it that way, that as opposed to everybody feeling like you’re supposed to hide these things in a closet somewhere, to instead maybe try to let that be a little more of an open dialogue.
Jo and I have just fallen in love with him, his mission…You know, there’s actually a t-shirt that goes around. What does it say? It’s like “I believe in Jesus and my therapist,” or something like that. But it’s just, I think for years, we’ve had the misnomer that you can’t have that be a part of the equation in regards to a healthy lifestyle.
So, to second your point to this question, we just are really pro-openness and the opportunities that are available to us when we have the opportunity to talk about things that are happening in our lives, and just mental [wellness]…and just how we incorporate that into our daily lives. So, thank you for that question.
QUESTION: So, in the second episode of Welcome Home, your employee John, he’s got a little connection to the TCA here. He was a High-Point media fellow who actually sat in with the TCA one year during, like, the students they came and they would watch panels. So, to watch him go from that to working for you guys was really cool. Then, to see him show up on your show was amazing. He’s a great guy. But I wanted to know, do you have plans to actually incorporate other employees in your future Magnolia shows, because it really did kind of lend kind of like a view into the world of the people working with you?
JOANNA GAINES: Yeah.
CHIP GAINES: Sure. I would argue we would love to do that. In John’s case, and what happens in our life, is we’re really hung on the concept of authenticity. What happens in real life has to then translate to this reality television show that we’re doing, or unscripted television show that we’re doing.
So, in John’s case, I mean, he came to us honestly hoping not to be on television, with just a simple request that we help him process his home buying experience. Obviously, he was from the northeast and had been in Waco for a few years before he decided to take the plunge, and the fact that that whole thing happened and it just organically worked out as it related to the television show was really special for us for all the reasons that you mentioned. I mean, it was fun to really highlight John.
One of my favorite scenes of that episode was us watching John walk down the hallway from his office to, basically, Jo’s design studio, and it was like, that is so fun. I mean, it’s like seeing the behind the scenes elements of a movie or a hit television show, maybe seeing how those things came about.
So, to your question, “Are there more of those?” I mean, they would have to happen organically. We didn’t showcase John just for the fun of it. He happened to actually be buying a house in Waco, so if any -
JOANNA GAINES: But with another series. There’re other things we’re working on where there’s actual employees that are going to have, whether it be a workshop or -
CHIP GAINES: I see. Sure.
JOANNA GAINES: - they’re going to be doing their own fixer, own first-time fixer, because it is this authentic story. We have a lot of these young professionals that are moving to Waco from L.A., New York, that need a little bit of guidance on how to do this. So, you’ll see them kind of popping up everywhere, but we love it because they’re like family. So, any time we can work with the people that we’re close to at work, it just makes it even more fun. I’m trying to talk John into his own series, but he won’t -
JOANNA GAINES: He won’t say yes.
CHIP GAINES: I’ve never gotten so much positive feedback. I mean, it’s always kind of tough for a client, and I always feel a little bit, not guilty, but I feel a little protective of our clients, because they put themselves out there to come in and do this experience, and once in a while if the reaction isn’t exactly right, or the circumstances are unique, or they just even have an odd hand motion or something, Twitter or the opinion at large can sometimes beat these individuals up a little bit, so I always feel like a paternal instinct to really try to protect them and guide them through this. But John, to the contrary, became an overnight phenomenon. I received so much information about how much they loved John and how interesting he was through the episode.
JOANNA GAINES: How cute John is.
CHIP GAINES: How cute John was.
JOANNA GAINES: “Is John available?”
CHIP GAINES: Oh my gosh.
JOANNA GAINES: La-la-la-la-la.
CHIP GAINES: We’ve never had so many requests from every person across the planet about an individual and their singleness, or lack thereof. So, it was fun to have John, and I appreciate that you’ve got a relationship with him that you recall and remembered, and appreciated that we were able to seam those two things together in that episode. That’s fun to hear.